From August, 2003

Joshua Jabcuga: At the age of nineteen you published your first movie review with the Dallas Times Herald. The column, called Joe Bob Goes to the Drive-in, quickly became a fan favorite among readers. Sounds like a great break for a young writer. Was this something that you just lucked into at the time and then it sort of snowballed from there?

Joe Bob Briggs: Well, it was something I did as a lark. The features editor and I kind of sneaked it into the paper when nobody was looking.
By the time the high sheriff editors figured out it was there, it was too late because it was already popular.

Joshua Jabcuga: Was it always your goal to be a movie critic/film enthusiast? At the time of your first break, were you in college taking journalism classes?

Joe Bob Briggs: I never took a journalism class. I started working at newspapers when I was fourteen, as an apprentice copy boy. I worked in every department of the paper, but especially sports.

Joshua Jabcuga: I believe the first film that you reviewed was a little gem called THE GRIM REAPER. Did you always have a penchant for these types of schlock films, or were you simply looking to fill a niche?

Joe Bob Briggs: I always loved two kinds of films: foreign films and exploitation films. What I could never stand was the Hollywood mainstream. At the time I started reviewing these films, they were ignored by the mainstream press. I think I was the only critic in America who reviewed THE GRIM REAPER, which holds up today as one of the finest Greek/Italian cannibal classics ever made.

Joshua Jabcuga: How open was the newspaper at first to a column called Joe Bob’s Drive-in Theater? Did you face a lot of stuffy opposition at first by so-called legitimate film critics, whatever that means?

Joe Bob Briggs: I was sneaky. The only person who knew the column was starting was the Entertainment Editor. We buried it in a Friday entertainment guide. It was way back among the discount furniture ads. We wanted to see if we could get away with it, knowing that most newspaper editors don’t read their own paper. We were right. By the time the high sheriffs discovered it, it was already too popular to kill. The opposition from stuffy film critics came later, after it became syndicated.

Joshua Jabcuga: By 1986 you were host of The Movie Channel’s JOE BOB’S DRIVE-IN THEATER. It became the network’s highest-rated show, ran for almost a decade, and was nominated twice for the Cable ACE Award. Initially, were you surprised by the positive reception for the show?

Joe Bob Briggs: I was surprised by how many people “got it.” It was the first program to treat cult movies seriously.

Joshua Jabcuga: The show had a great vibe that seems to be missing from a lot of television these days, a sort of loose, fun atmosphere. It seemed like you were having a blast making the show. Was that the greatest gig in the world at the time?

Joe Bob Briggs: I was definitely having a lot of fun doing it, yes, and we shot it in “real time” which added to the live feeling of everything.

Joshua Jabcuga: When you switched over to MONSTERVISION on TNT, which ran for four years up until July 2000, did you feel like the show lost anything in the transition from The Movie Channel to TNT?

Joe Bob Briggs: For the first two years it was virtually the same show, just cleaned up for basic cable. The last two years the network kept asking for changes to make it more “mainstream” or “female-friendly,” and they basically ruined a good thing.

Joshua Jabcuga: You have a new book out, PROFOUNDLY DISTURBING: THE SHOCKING MOVIES THAT CHANGED HISTORY. You cover twenty different films, ranging from DEEP THROAT to RESERVOIR DOGS to THE WILD BUNCH to DRUNKEN MASTER. What were the criteria for a film to make your list?

Joe Bob Briggs: It had to be a film that changed history, as the subtitle states. In some cases the film just changed the world of filmmaking, but in some cases, like SHAFT, it changed the whole culture. They’re also all films your mother didn’t want you to see. And they were films that I thought were due for a revisionist reading.

Joshua Jabcuga: Some of the reviews that I’ve seen so far seem surprised at the amount of work and detail you put into your research for these films. What were some of the goals you had in mind when you started working on this project?

Joe Bob Briggs: Just to get people to look at these films in a new way.

Joshua Jabcuga: Were there any films that you wanted to put into the book that you had to eliminate for the sake of space? Any that will pop up in a sequel?

Joe Bob Briggs: There were at least 100 other films I could have included, but I tried to limit it to films that had not been analyzed to death. For example, the original FRANKENSTEIN was a very important film, and definitely changed history, but it’s just been written about so much, I didn’t feel like I had anything to add to what’s already been said.

Joshua Jabcuga: One of the movies that you cover in your book is THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE. What are your thoughts about this new remake that Hollywood is producing?

Joe Bob Briggs: I don’t really even want to watch it. I don’t really understand how you can remake that film, which is perfect in its way and is firmly rooted in its time and place.

Joshua Jabcuga: You also cover Romero’s NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD. Of the Dead trilogy, which film is your favorite? NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, DAWN OF THE DEAD, or DAY OF THE DEAD?

Joe Bob Briggs: I think the first one, the original, is my favorite, because it was done without irony. I think ironic horror is usually a cop-out. Not that DAWN OF THE DEAD is not a great movie in its own way. But it’s not as scary as the original. DAY OF THE DEAD is certainly the weakest of the three.

Joshua Jabcuga: If you had to pick your top three films from any genre, what would they be and why?

Joe Bob Briggs: THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE. CRASH. HELLRAISER. They’re all original films that can never be duplicated.

Joshua Jabcuga: Are there any plans to do another cable TV show? I think you’d be a perfect match for Spike TV.

Joe Bob Briggs: At this point the networks aren’t clamoring for my services, but the interest in hosted movies, and cult movies in general, tends to run in cycles. Most of the shows I’ve had have commenced because a network executive thought the idea was CHEAP.

Originally published July 15, 2008

Bob Fingerman’s novel PARIAH was given the prestigious honor of being named “Zombie Book of the Year” in the 2010 ’Cuga’s Cuts year-end awards. I have no doubt that that was the highlight of his year. PARIAH also received quite a bit of buzz from other places as diverse as ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY (an A- review), to FANGORIA (“Book of the Month”), as well as blurbs from Robert Kirkman, Brian Keene, Jonathan Lethem, Trey Parker and Augusten Burroughs.

Josh Jabcuga: The success of PARIAH clearly demonstrates the crossover appeal of your writing. You couldn’t ask for a better response from critics and your peers. Now that the dust has settled, do you think the book has found its audience?

FINGERMAN: After that wonderful buildup, I hate to sound negative, but no. The praise it’s gotten is wonderful, but I feel PARIAH could and should reach a much larger audience than it has, thus far. I’m sure every author feels that way about his or her work, but publishing is such a weird state of affairs at the moment, it’s hard to figure out how to find your audience or, more to the point, have them find you.

That said, it’s not doing badly. I don’t expect to sell Stephen King numbers, but I would like a more robust readership. I think that opportunity is coming, though, as the mass-market paperback is coming out on June 28, so that will put it in a lot more outlets at a cheaper price. Hopefully, that will encourage more people to pick it up and read it. I need bigger numbers so I can do the sequels, which I’m dying to do.

Josh Jabcuga: Time is definitely on your side, Bob. Not to sound cliché, but zombies are hotter than ever. I believe much of this has to do with AMC airing THE WALKING DEAD. It’s as if the mainstream finally “gets” it. If I had to pinpoint when this “new wave” started, at least in terms of publishing, I’d have to give credit to one of the relatively newer masters of horror, Brian Keene, and the essential THE RISING. In my opinion, that’s basically the launching pad.

FINGERMAN: It’s always hard to pinpoint that kind of thing. I read and thoroughly enjoyed Keene’s zombie offerings, as well as Dave Wellington’s. Theirs are more magicky takes on the subject matter. More metaphysical and paranormal. Ancient spirits guiding the undead. I thought that was interesting as it’s completely at odds with what I do.

One of the reasons I’ve always responded favorably to David Cronenberg’s work was he always went for a more scientific-type approach. That’s not to say the “science” wasn’t totally sketchy, but it made the horror easier to swallow for me. That’s why as much as I admire Stephen King’s work, the presence of the divine always ruins it a bit. God can always come to the rescue and the devil or his evil lackeys are almost always to blame. Cronenberg really nailed the “disease of the cell” approach in modern horror.

I got there a little before the curve, but zombies in the late ’90s weren’t hot. PARIAH is actually a sequel, pretty much, to the zombie graphic novel I wrote in 1997 for Dark Horse Comics, WINTER’S DREGS, for their abortive ZOMBIE WORLD series. PARIAH was pitched first, but the editor wanted a prequel, and by the time I was ready to do PARIAH, the series was canceled.

Just was well. It worked better as a novel. Much better.

Josh Jabcuga: You worked for Harvey Kurtzman on NUTS!, Al Goldstein’s SCREW, HEAVY METAL, NATIONAL LAMPOON and HIGH TIMES, just to name a few. I’d imagine that provided some invaluable lessons for you as a young writer in the trenches. And it is an amazing portfolio and a snapshot at a different era, really. Do you look back at those experiences fondly?

FINGERMAN: I’m actually planning on writing a straight literary novel based on my experiences at SCREW. That was quite an office. I’ll tell you, in retrospect, I’m glad that I worked for all those places, especially the seedier ones. They had color. At the time, I wasn’t so happy about it. I mean, I liked the people I worked with, but those weren’t exactly tony employers to add to your CV or portfolio.

Some classier clientele would have been sweet, but you can’t put a price on the outsized characters I met over the years at those joints. But those places paid my bills. I wish I’d had my skill set where it is now to work for LAMPOON. I revere that magazine, but only did one job for it and it wasn’t really up to snuff. Still, I tried.

Josh Jabcuga: I was at a Joe Hill reading — actually, it was his first Comic-Con “panel” ever — and someone was looking for advice on writing. If I remember correctly, I believe Joe said he wrote about a million words before he felt he found his voice. He certainly paid his dues, though from what I understand, writing runs in that family — wink. At what point do you think you found your voice, and who were some of your influences?

FINGERMAN: I think I’ve always had a voice, for better or worse. I have what you might call a “strong personality.” I’ve always had a thing for words, since way back. But as to my voice, I think there’s a through line in all my work. Like there’s “that Barton Fink feeling,” I think there’s a Bob Fingerman feeling, too. Maybe it’s the initials.

That said, sure I’ve got influences: Terry Southern, Bruce Jay Friedman, Donald Westlake, Phil Dick, to go back a ways. Chuck Palahniuk is a contemporary influence. But my innate narcissism calls the shots and dictates how I put it down on paper. I don’t want to imitate anyone. For better or worse, I want it to sound like me.

There are writers out there who tell a brisk story — really propulsive plotters, that kind of thing — but they don’t have much style. They are all about telling the story and not into creating crafty prose. I like tasty sentences. Though I’ve kind of moved on from Martin Amis, he crafted some beautiful prose. That seeped in.

Josh Jabcuga: I mentioned Brian Keene earlier. Last Thursday, he launched a campaign for writers, retailers and readers to boycott Dorchester/Leisure. Unfortunately, I have friends affected by this whole situation, and maybe you do, too. It’s a raw deal and really shows the underbelly of publishing. Would you care to comment or offer some words of encouragement to those writers?

FINGERMAN: It sounds feeble, but of course, I totally feel for those writers. It’s a lousy predicament they’re in. And it looks, at least from an outsider’s point of view, like Dorchester is being less than forthright when it comes to how they’re handling their situation.

My friend Laura, also a writer, pointed out some of the language Dorchester’s used — “In bankruptcy, but not actually filing for bankruptcy” — and decoded that as meaning reorganizing debt with no protection for creditors. So, yeah, my sympathies, big time. It’s a precarious time to be doing anything creative and expecting to make a living at it.

Josh Jabcuga: Last but not least: Recommend a good book to me.

FINGERMAN: Just read a couple by R. Scott Bakker that I really enjoyed: DISCIPLE OF THE DOG and NEUROPATH. Also Walter Greatshell’s latest, MAD SKILLS, which was really fun. Currently reading I KNOW I AM, BUT WHAT ARE YOU? by Samantha Bee. Very funny stuff.

Oops, that’s not genre. Is that a no-no? And that was more than one. Fuck it, I’m a rebel.

First gaining mainstream critical acclaim with his script for the debut episode of Showtime’s MASTERS OF HORROR series, Stephen Romano rode the buzz(saw) straight to the grindhouse with his exploitation opus, STEPHEN ROMANO’S SHOCK FESTIVAL, which RUE MORGUE magazine heralded as its “Best Fiction Book of 2008.” Romano is currently promoting the release of STARCRASH on DVD and Blu-ray, of which he serves as producer, and chief historian, providing a 12-page booklet of liner notes and some of the most insightful DVD audio commentaries you’re likely to find on this side of the galaxy!

Josh Jabcuga: Stephen, in a conversation we had a couple of years ago, you were extolling the virtues of an Italian-made space opera from the tail end of the ’70s called STARCRASH. Now you’re the proud papa of the film’s release on DVD and Blu-ray, as producer and commentator. But tell us about the book you were going to write on it.

ROMANO: When I became a pro writer, I thought doing a book about the making of STARCRASH would be interesting. It was a really novel idea, writing this tell-all thing about a STAR WARS rip-off nobody seemed to remember anymore.

Kind of like canonizing the works of Ed Wood or something. Ever read NIGHTMARE OF ECSTASY? That’s the book Tim Burton’s ED WOOD is based on. Just amazing stuff.

I knew I could do something similar because STARCRASH had been a troubled production — it would be a really juicy story at any rate. I spent many years doing the research, and I covered the whole thing in a lot of depth. The book was actually written and finished.

But I decided for my own reasons not to publish it. It wasn’t my destiny to be a film journalist. I wasn’t prepared to be despised by all these people I truly admired for telling the unvarnished truth. Caroline Munro was particularly shocked by the details I revealed about her personal life in there. I just had to call the whole thing off and get on with my real career. I felt like I was jerking off.

Josh Jabcuga: Producing the official release of STARCRASH is a natural progression for you, because of your exploitation opus, STEPHEN ROMANO’S SHOCK FESTIVAL. I fell in love, and awe, immediately with it.

ROMANO: There’s always been an audience for SHOCK FESTIVAL. Everybody loves it. The damn thing never got a single bad review.

Josh Jabcuga: And you wrote a novelization of the film BLACK DEVIL DOLL. I read it and was floored when I saw a nod to THE FAN MAN by William Kotzwinkle. He has had quite an impact on you personally, hasn’t he?

ROMANO: Yes, he has. The Kotz is my favorite living writer — a true magician with words. And THE FAN MAN is my favorite book of all time. So … um … I made a reference to Horse Badordties in BLACK DEVIL DOLL? Damn, I don’t remember that at all. Then again, that was a pretty quick affair I did mostly for the money. I was stinking drunk the entire time I was writing it. You can probably tell, can’t you?

I just now went over to the bookshelf and thumbed through BDD and some of it’s still pretty funny. You know, bathroom humor. Really, really over the fucking top bathroom humor. Every writer should do that at least once, right? I think most of my other writing tends to be really, really over-the-top bathroom humor, only I ask you to take me seriously. And I’m in love with movie novelizations. It’s the trashiest, most fly-by-night form of art in literature!

Anyhow, the Kotz. William Kotzwinkle is a man who has done everything there is to do as a writer. He’s done drama, comedy, weird historical fantasy porn, horror, science fiction, crime fiction, and he even wrote one of the NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET movies. And he does it all with the chameleonic, do-it-in-my-sleep expertise of a fucking Jedi Knight. He’s so good he makes it seem easy, and for that reason is the best writing teacher I’ve ever had in my life. Just reading his books is worth several graduate courses in creative writing, man. His magic rubs off on you.

He’s most famous now for a series of books about a farting dog. Just amazing. And he wrote the novelizations of E.T. THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL and SUPERMAN III. So this guy is my fucking goddamn hero. Some books of his that you must recommend on BOOKGASM are NIGHTBOOK, JACK IN THE BOX, THE GAME OF THIRTY and THE EXILE. Oh, and THE BEAR WENT OVER THE MOUNTAIN, too. That one is fucking incredible.

Josh Jabcuga: Will fans ever get to read JUST LIKE THE ANIMALS or have you shelved that for the time being in favor of something else. And will THE RIOT ACT ever get a deluxe reissue?

ROMANO: JUST LIKE THE ANIMALS was a very personal book and reflected a dark time in my life which I am just starting to come out of. I’m in no hurry to revisit that territory. But I’m sure I will be again someday. It’s still there. I wrote it very quickly, in just 20 days, and it knocked my dick in the dirt. I’ll publish it one day, just not now. I have other priorities.

There’s a new novel coming out via small press called SAFE IN THE WOODS, which is extremely dark pulp crime stuff — also very personal, but it’s genre. JUST LIKE THE ANIMALS was not genre. It was dark drama. The new one is about people killing each other with guns and chainsaws. I wrote that one last year.

This year’s literary project is something much bigger than anything else I have done in the print medium, even SHOCK FESTIVAL. I can’t talk about it until we get the ink on the dotted lines, but it’s been in development for most of 2010 and is just now becoming a reality. It won’t come out until next year probably. It’s kind of the final result of a long look at my life’s work and a firm decision to veer in a more commercial vein, so I can start selling a few books and not worry about the rent so much. I’ve spent most of my life as an artist following my instincts and desires, which has led to some really great stuff.

SHOCK FESTIVAL was a project I developed personally, outside the system, which was also one of the reasons why it failed to fit into the system. Still, it is a project which I am extremely proud of. If I died tomorrow, I could take that book with me. I wanted to do it since I was a kid and had the opportunity to spend two years working on it and my vision is on every page. I went as far as I could go in terms of unadulterated personal commitment and artistic endeavor on that project. I answered to no one but myself. But I also nearly starved to death for my commitment — literally!

I’m just switching venues for a while. It is a great project with my own unique imprint. Just not as many exploding heads. I’m okay with that. Stuff like THE RIOT ACT and SAFE IN THE WOODS will still be available from the small press. In fact, I’ll be republishing THE RIOT ACT myself at some point in the future. But that’s really dark, nasty stuff, man. I think there’s a lot of truth in that kind of writing, but it’s not for everybody, and if you’re not already famous or whatever, you won’t get very far with it.

After selling his first novel in 1991, World Fantasy Award winner Graham Joyce has pursued writing full-time. He teaches creative writing to grad students at Nottingham Trent University, and his current novel is HOW TO MAKE FRIENDS WITH DEMONS, published by Night Shade Books.

Josh Jabcuga: I’ve described HOW TO MAKE FRIENDS WITH DEMONS as Frank Capra’s IT’S A WONDERFUL LIFE if it had been filmed by Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds, and I mean that in all the best possible ways. The prose is so eloquent. And it’s a deceptive tale because it has whimsical moments, while also revealing a real darkness. As a writer, how did you maintain this gravitas with some of the light-heartedness, keeping the tone and the plot from wilting?

GRAHAM JOYCE: Well, I’ve long maintained that the experience of life is an eerie balance between horror and humor. Or maybe humor is a coping mechanism we have developed. Either way, however dark the subject matter of my books, I do like to trigger levity and I can’t abide humorless books. I suppose I was saying this — or my Arab character was — when he was talking about the endless war between gravity and levity. You know: trying to maintain a sense of humor in a grim situation.

Josh Jabcuga: Speaking of deception, your main character, William Heaney, has been living since college with a lot of personal deception of his own. He’s bright enough to know he has issues, but has carried this frustration and guilt around for far too long. Some might say he’s sabotaging himself. It’s as if these setbacks and mistakes needed to be made in order for his life to truly blossom, though. Some of your work seems to be about escaping the past; here, ultimately, it’s about embracing the past. Are you of the belief that everything in life happens for a reason? A hopeless romantic or romantically hopeful?

JOYCE: Most certainly the latter. We have to have optimism for carrying on, and it is the responsibility of every writer to find that. Often the evidence is against us, and even in our best efforts, the Raptors amongst us drive us back to war and conflict and misery, just so long as they can profit from the world’s resources. But for every example of that, you can find an example of the contrary power in some humanizing, compassionate or illuminating force. The human race is a bad lot, but we do carry the wonderful spark of light.

Josh Jabcuga: In HOW TO MAKE FRIENDS WITH DEMONS, you thank the Pixies for the song “Monkey Gone to Heaven.” Lyrics in the song read: “If man is five / Then the devil is six / Then God is seven / This monkey’s gone to heaven.” Do you think people need some sense of cosmic order or religion in their life, or do they get weighed down by the sum of the numbers, so to speak? Like in William’s case, the 1,567 “demons” he needed to come to terms with.

JOYCE: I’m an atheist, but one who sometimes can’t entirely escape from magical thinking. What’s more, I know that although rationality is a fantastic tool, it will never explain the darkness or the sheer energy of creation. But it’s that irrational way of knowing that sparks art, music, literature. Sometimes I think there is enough religion inside that. I don’t think we have to have cosmic order. We can’t possible “know” and that’s all right. The mystery is enough.

Josh Jabcuga: Your work seems to blend genres and erase lines, from fantasy to horror. Were publishers initially hesitant to look at your work because of this cross-pollination style of writing, maybe because they didn’t know how to quote-unquote label or market your books? If so, how did you deal with rejection? Do you give any advice to your students or aspiring writers for dealing with rejection?

JOYCE: I was lucky not to get much rejection from publishers. The sort of rejection I might have experienced is when people won’t touch your books because either they hate fantasy or, more often, they think my stuff isn’t fantasy enough. I tend to say to my students, “Look, you’re on this road, and you’d better make sure that it’s your road and not someone else’s road. That way, you’ll always remember what it is you set out to do, and that way, any rejection can be reduced in its significance.”

Josh Jabcuga: Your work has been compared to the likes of Nick Hornby to Gabriel Garcia Marquez to Algernon Blackwood. I won’t ask you to describe your style, but I’d be curious to know who some of your influences are, and if there might be any current fiction that you are enjoying?

JOYCE: I read very widely both inside and outside of the genres. I’m just reading LITTLE DORRIT by Dickens, and it’s magnificent. Again, it’s just so funny in a grim context of universal imprisonment. He has me laughing my head off, but he offers compassion, which is the thing no novel should be without, though too many are.

Josh Jabcuga: Are writers just wanna-be musicians — guitar players who can’t play a lick, or rock ‘n’ roll front men who can’t carry a tune?

JOYCE: That sounds like me.

From July, 2005.

www.JoshuaJabcuga.com: As far as your artistic upbringing, was your family supportive?

Lance Henriksen: It’s very interesting you ask that ‘cause I didn’t go to college. I didn’t even go to high school. But my grandfather was really, he had like ten kids and he painted his whole life so I was always surrounded by art. And then when I was sixteen I left. I left home pretty young but I started painting murals and traveling, but it was all on guts alone. And over the years what happens is you–, if you’re trying to be an artist you run into other people who are further along than you are, but they always are generous. I mean I’ve never met an artist that’s not generous. If he isn’t generous then he’s probably no good anyway. You know, because, the whole thing about art is unless you give it away, it dries up. Everything you put out there comes back to you tenfold. I mean there’s no doubt about it.

Josh Jabcuga: Who were some of your artistic influences?

Lance Henriksen: Oh God, there’s so many. I mean, for different reasons, like, I mean, every…. You know what it really was, too? Most of the artists, like Picasso, of that era, you know, Picasso’s era, where you have Modigliani and all those guys in Paris in the 20s, that was a very radical era. And remember, my true youth was in the 60s, so we were radical too. You know, we had a lot of stuff going on. So all the contemporaries, they didn’t have heroes. We didn’t look at other artists and go, “That’s my hero.” We were trying to make ourselves the hero. “I wanna make my statement.” You know, so it’s a different thing. When I see the struggle in the artist, like Picasso even said, “The apples could be fifty times more beautiful, but all I see in them is the anxiety, the power of the anxiety.” And what I’m trying to get at is that art, like what I do on the tiles, or what somebody does in a painting, it’s meant to be used, to be taken, take that idea. Like I love (Edvard) Munche because he was so, he’s Scandinavian, and I understood that, you know, that Midsummer’s Night thing, where there’s no dark, you know, and it’s a crazy world and he’s got it. It’s right there; you can see it. And who doesn’t like him?

There’s a lot of wonderful artists but as I got older, I love things like Giger’s work. I mean, an ironic thing has happened to me: all the arts have now come to movies. You have great sculptors, you have musicians, you have writers, all these incredible artists have come to the entertainment industry, and I’m surrounded by it all the time. So it has become more of a sort of a way of life that you have to believe in the music that’s in you and try anything. Don’t be afraid to try anything.

Josh Jabcuga: What do you see when you look at your finished piece and what do you hope your fans and the critics will see?

Lance Henriksen: Really, you know, trying to make an artifact an artifact for something that never really happened. You know, we made the movies, but this is a tangible artifact from that, like a step back from that. In other words, if you suddenly dug one of these up and said, “Oh my God, it’s an alien!” That feeling is kind of nice, and that we live with them. It’s meant to be like that.

Josh Jabcuga: Authentic.

Lance Henriksen: Yeah. Something authentic. Something more tangible than a glossy picture.

Josh Jabcuga: Have you spoken with Giger at all? Has he had any say in this project?

Lance Henriksen: I’ve had three opportunities to meet Giger. I met him, believe it or not, before I was an actor, in New York City. I wasn’t an actor, but he was having an exhibition there. And I walked in off the street. I just saw his paintings and walked in off the street. And there he was and I just said, “Man, these are, these are something. They’re different.” He was very generous and happy about it. But I gotta tell you, over the years now, to watch his development, this guy is an amazing artist.

Josh Jabcuga: He’s an icon himself.

Lance Henriksen: He sure is, yeah. But you only become an icon when you stay true to your sensitivities and act on them. It’s, you know, that’s the whole deal.

Josh Jabcuga: Do you listen to music while you’re creating your art? Do you have anything playing in the background?

Lance Henriksen: Yeah, I, you know, odd stuff. Like I like Indonesian, uh, you know, that bell music and their drums and all that stuff. I will listen to any kind of music as long as it’s just meant to be an environment. I don’t listen to hard rock. I’m more into sounds than anything else.

Josh Jabcuga: Ambient?

Lance Henriksen: Yeah, but not like elevator music.

Josh Jabcuga: Right. Not Muzak.

Lance Henriksen: Right. But I do love, uh, I like African music, I mean I like really kinda esoteric, tribal stuff, ‘cause to me, I’m still looking for my–probably will ‘til the day I die, but I’m looking for sorta rights of manhood. What are we meant to do? How do I feel those feelings? I can’t go hunt a lion down with a spear, but I have the urge. And so that’s I think what art is about for me. It’s, I’m into acting because I’m not very fond of authority for its own sake. I love doing what I do because I don’t have to answer to an authority. Not even when I’m working. And I’m into the arts for almost rights of manhood kinda thing.

Josh Jabcuga: You mentioned how Giger was generous to you. Do you have any advice for up and coming artists?

Lance Henriksen: Sure.

Josh Jabcuga: What would you say to up and coming artists?

Lance Henriksen: I just think the most important thing is to work until you become obsessed and that’s where it all begins. Once you’re obsessed, once you know you’re obsessed, that’s when your work really is beginning. You’re gonna find your way once you’re obsessed. Nobody can lie about it. It is as haunting as…it puts you into such a state of longing as if it were a drug. And so that’s the answer.

Josh Jabcuga: Thank you so much. It’s really been an honor meeting you and having this opportunity to talk with you.

Lance Henriksen: Thank you Josh, for your interview.

Josh Jabcuga: It’s always great to meet artists like you.

Lance Henriksen: Thank you, buddy. Now I can have a cigarette. (Both laugh.)

Originally Published December 1, 2009

Springsteen’s a Jersey boy. The two are synonymous. Same way the saints and sinners of New York City are worshipped in the work of a young Martin Scorsese. It’s a message the Boss carries in the back pocket of his tattered denim, even when he roams far beyond his hometown. It’s a time capsule of Americana. It’s rock ‘n roll as flesh and blood. It’s a postcard for haunted memories, for shackled lovers and their blue-collar legacies. As Springsteen sings in “The River,” “Is a dream a lie if it don’t come true, or is it something worse?”

Is Buffalo dreaming or just sleeping one off? In many ways Springsteen could be singing about the “city of good neighbors,” with its never-say-die, born-to-lose, dying-to-run, “wide right,” working class (to the bone) attitude. Where progress is often a one-way bus ticket straight outta town. The glorious four seasons have burned out, leaving just the frozen ground and vacant waterfront and the road detours of construction in its wake. The older generation goes to their Sunday Mass, hoping their long, weathered faces will be rewarded with wings for sticking it out through the troubles of high state taxes and dues paid in rosary clinics and VFW Posts. The steel plant packed up while Elvis was still alive and O.J. was a hero, and none are coming back. Crystal Beach memories and gin mill politicians are pressed between the pages of some waterlogged scrapbook at the bottom of Lake Erie, in the shadow of where The Comet rollercoaster once roared.

Besides New Jersey, there may be no other place in the world that is so interchangeable in Springsteen’s lyrics than Buffalo, New York. It’s only fitting that the Boss and his E Street Band closed out their tour, and possibly turned the page on their final chapter (at least in its current form), in Buffalo on Sunday, November 22, 2009.

Indeed, it was a special night for many reasons. Springsteen had played albums in full at previous shows, but never, in his illustrious musical career, had he performed his studio debut, Greetings from Asbury Park, N.J., from start to finish. Ever.

For one night only, Springsteen and the giant, brassy E Street Band went home by way of Buffalo, playing all of their first album. The November night brought a brisk breeze off the lake, as concertgoers tailgated in anticipation of the monumental occasion. There were rumors that celebrities Nicolas Cage and Meg Ryan would be in attendance. The packed house at the HSBC Arena (the HSBC stands for “Hot Sauce and Blue Cheese” according to us locals) was treated to a very rare occasion, where there was only one playing field, and it was level, and Buffalo was a town with a future. It was Springsteen and his pack of gypsy bandmates playing the musical notes of their past, revisiting in whole the holy ghosts that, according to Springsteen, took them from zero to one, reminding the rusted-out city of Buffalo what our fathers and grandfathers once felt: optimism.

“Growin’ Up” from Greetings from Asbury Park, N.Y.:

“And I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car /

I hid in the mother breast of the crowd, when they said ‘pull down’ I pulled up.”

The night was jubilant. Springsteen was everything you’ve ever heard or read about him. All of it, it’s all true. He played for nearly three and a half hours, never once leaving the stage. It was like he thought he’d lose the audience if he left their sight for even a second. He worked too hard to get this far, dammit, and he wasn’t gonna let it all go to waste now, as if that were possible. You were there for him and he was there for you, like having your buddy’s back in a bad night on the wrong side of town. This crowd adored him. They cherished him and his traveling circus. Like Mickey Mantle. Like James Dean. John Wayne. Steve McQueen. Springsteen and the E Street Band are icons, yet here they are, in front of us, sweating and strutting and taking requests! The best bar band in the world, indeed. The audience came to be lifted. It came to drink and dance. It came to remember and forget and love and be loved and share a moment in time before the clock struck midnight, before Buffalo would be just Buffalo without a boss.

This band, well, this wasn’t the same group of friends, kids, that wrote the material released in January 1973. This was a group of survivors rekindling Greetings from Asbury Park, N.J., and wearing it like a badge of honor. Maybe the friendships lost some of the luster over the years, but just standing side by side is a testament to something greater than differences of opinion and petty arguments.

These world-traveled heroes, wiser and maybe a little more reluctant to squeeze the trigger, yet determined to prove they could still keep up with their younger selves, pulled out all stops. Friends who shared many special moments on stages across the world, spanning many miles, continents even. Far from the Jersey shore. Far from their youth, when rock and roll was still thumping from jukeboxes, spiraling wildly out of control from vinyl, when there were hearts to capture and hearts to break and still more hearts to play just to break even. Before war had been on rerun like a New Year’s television marathon, from Cronkite to Couric. Before the economy went belly up, sinking deeper and deeper. Before the band knew all the punchlines. And before you gave up on yourself and still allowed for surprises.

So is a dream a lie if it don’t come true? I’ll let you know in the morning, ’cause somewhere I can hear the echoes of a band playing my tune, and that means I’ve gotta roll on outta here.

Full Setlist:

Wrecking Ball
The Ties That Bind
Hungry Heart
Working On A Dream

(Greetings From Asbury Park, N.J.)

Blinded By The Light
Growin’ Up
Mary Queen Of Arkansas
Does This Bus Stop At 82nd Street?
Lost In The Flood
The Angel
For You
Spirit In The Night
It’s Hard To Be A Saint In The City

Waitin’ on a Sunny Day
The Promised Land
Restless Nights
Surprise, Surprise
Merry Christmas Baby
Santa Claus is Coming to Town
Hang Up My Rock and Roll Shoes
Boom Boom
My Love Will Not Let You Down
Long Walk Home
The Rising
Born to Run
Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out
I’ll Work For Your Love
Thunder Road
American Land
Dancing in the Dark
Rosalita
(Your Love Keeps Lifting Me) Higher and Higher (w/ Willie Nile)
Rocking All Over the World

By Joshua Jabcuga
Originally published at Bookgasm.com on September 10, 2010

Brian Keene’s latest from Leisure Books, A GATHERING OF CROWS, features an advance look at his next novel, ENTOMBED, slated for release in February 2011. If you’ve been following the news, Leisure made an official announcement last month that its mass-market division was being, well, entombed, in favor of e-books and trade paperbacks. Doom and gloom would seem like an optimistic forecast, as shortly afterward, editor and industry favorite Don D’Auria, a man most recognize as bringing Leisure’s horror, Western and thriller lines, to a place of respectability, was let go.

Homey say what? And Keene, one of the heavy-hitters for the horror line, saw the graffiti on the wall, perhaps before anyone, and decided to part ways with the publisher.
Losing D’Auria and Keene is tantamount to losing Lennon and McCartney, and most likely the end to a special era for fans who could proudly walk into brick-and-mortar stores and easily find copies of Keene, Richard Laymon, Jack Ketchum, John Shirley, J.F. Gonzalez and Edward Lee, among other mid-list greats, at affordable rates. So what this means is Keene’s CROWS is probably, by all indications, his last release from Leisure, and the novel’s title is chillingly apropos on many levels.

Keene’s work can be polarizing at times, but he has established a passionate fan base along the way. Few authors in horror work as hard to promote their work and produce as much. And he’s naturally entertaining. Even his blogs are collected into much-sought-after collections, such as the most recent, LEADER OF THE BANNED: THE BEST OF HAIL SATEN VOLUME 4.

In CROWS, five shadowy figures, older than the dirt on Jesus’ sandals, converge on a rural town named Brinkley Springs with the intentions of using it as an all-you-can-eat Country Buffet. They cut off Podunkville and seal everyone in using a mystical barrier called a “soul cage.” Luckily, there’s the ex-Amish magus Levi Stoltzfus to help with his own brand of powwow and other magical martial arts, er, disciplines. Fans of Gene Colan, Roy Thomas, Gerry Conway and 1970s-era Marvel Comics horror titles will relish this supernatural yarn (and those of the late-night cable and rental gem, THE PROPHECY, starring Christopher Walken as Gabriel, and Viggo Mortensen as Lucifer, natch).

CROWS deals with the themes of alienation and isolation. (And extra points to Keene for name-dropping occasional BOOKGASM contributor Ed Gorman during the course of the story.) Keene’s core strength as a writer is his ability to touch on current topics and trends, and even stay ahead of the curve (he was at the forefront of the latest outbreak of this zombie craze), thanks in part by being so damned prolific.

He keeps it real, and his M.O., his job, is to create entertainment for the working people, while reflecting (and respecting) their daily plights. Smart thinking: Sell your product to the largest possible audience. There’s no crime in that. His brand of horror is made in America, for blue-collar folks, without ever talking down to them. That’s something I can get behind.

Had a bad day at work? Spend a couple minutes with Keene and let him take you on one of his magical mystery tours. Or perhaps it’d be more accurate to compare him to vintage Bruce Springsteen. Is it any coincidence that his previous novel was called DARKNESS ON THE EDGE OF TOWN? With CROWS, he manages to touch on the unstable economy, and the veterans from the war in Iraq who come home to a job marketplace very much in shambles, much like Leisure finds itself these days. Sounds like a Springsteen song, you ask me. Scary and uncertain times, but good fodder for a horror writer, if you can get the gig … and still make a living doing it.

Now, call me crazy, but more than a couple of times, it felt like there was a hidden subtext offering Keene’s meditation on the fear many Republicans felt when President Obama was running for office and subsequently elected. So was Keene secretly for or against the stimulus package? If you could read the book backward, like in a mirror, like listening to an album in reverse, you might get your answer. Or maybe I’m confusing that with “Paul is dead.”

By Joshua Jabcuga
Originally published at MPShoot on March 17, 2005

“Buffalo Soldiers”
The scene: The Buffalo Icon, 391 Ellicott St., Buffalo, NY.
The date: March 03, 2005
The occasion: An interview with Max Cavalera, the musical force behind SOULFLY, SEPULTURA, and the Cavalera Conspiracy.

In typical Buffalo fashion, the weather was frigid. The landscape was pallid, a dusty figure from a wax museum or maybe a two-day-old corpse, I’m not sure which. A strong wind blew off Lake Erie, creating a wind-chill that would whip through the industrial wasteland of smokestacks and vacant buildings, turning the cityscape into enormous post apocalyptic wind chimes.

I was invited onto the SOULFLY tour bus, several hours before the show was scheduled to begin. At that point, I just wanted to get somewhere that offered heat. I made my way past a couple of lap dogs yipping at my ankles. I found out later that one was named after Rick James. Max laughed when I told him the late Rick James was a Buffalo native.

Max’s agent told me that the artist was waiting at the rear of the bus. I’d go straight to the back of the bus, where Max would be waiting for me behind a closed sliding door. My photographer was not welcome. Max likes to chill before hitting the stage, and I could respect that. “Just you and Max.” I was cool with that. “Oh, and you can get everything you need in fifteen minutes or less, right?” I wasn’t about to say “No.” Would you? This would be irrelevant anyway, as Max and I seemed to hit it off from the get-go, and our interview would go well beyond the allotted fifteen minutes.

I sat on a small couch on the opposite side of Max in the back of the bus. There were several stacks of CDs, and some reggae was playing quietly. We introduced ourselves, and Max immediately struck me as a warm and generous soul. Was this the same possessed man I heard on all those SEPULTURA and SOULFLY albums? Was this the man who screamed his guts out and played until his fingers bled on all those legendary albums I listened to religiously?

Since it was Buffalo here, I had the typical uniform of layer upon layer, economical, but comfortable. Max’s eyes were immediately drawn to the T-shirt I was wearing. It was a brown shirt with an orange imprint of Marvin Gaye’s face, with the phrase “War is not the answer.”

“What’s on your shirt there? I like that? Where’d you get that? That’s cool.”

I explained the origins of the shirt. I had found it on Ebay. “War is not the answer” are lyrics from one of my all-time favorite albums, Marvin Gaye’s What’s Goin’ On.

And the tape starts rolling here:

Max Cavalera, lead singer of SOULFLY, formerly of SEPULTURA: I don’t have anything of him (Marvin Gaye), you know. I heard it. I heard his stuff before.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: You’ve never listened to him?

Max Cavalera: I don’t own anything, no, it’s a shame. I should go get some.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Yeah, his best album, well, the one he’s most famous for, it’s called What’s Goin’ On.

Max Cavalera: Yeah.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: I mean, you play that once and it’ll blow your mind.

Max Cavalera: That’s right. I heard of that. When I did (the album) Primitive, the producer was Toby Wright. And he did ALICE IN CHAINS and METALLICA. He told me about this record. I just never went and got it. And somebody told me about JIMI HENDRIX.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Yeah.

Max Cavalera: Uh, Ladyland-something.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Electric Ladyland.

Max Cavalera: I never heard that either. Somebody told me that it sounds like, it reminds them of SOULFLY.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Definitely.

Max Cavalera: And I was like, wow, that’s crazy, you know.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Oh, totally.

Max Cavalera: It’s a shame that I never went back. Some of that stuff, I never went back and discovered, but it’s good that I still got time. (both laugh.)

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Well especially on the new album Prophesy, the track “Moses”—

Max Cavalera: Yeah.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: I mean, on all your albums you have all these influences, they all sound beautiful together.

Max Cavalera: Yeah.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: It’s like you’re a sponge and you’re incorporating these things. You never know what to expect when you get a SOULFLY album.

Max Cavalera: Yeah.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: I mean, fans always have an idea, but it’s your unique recipe, and you’re always tossing in a new ingredient. I can definitely pick up on some HENDRIX in your work. Somebody said you’re like the BOB MARLEY of metal.

Max Cavalera: I’ve played a lot of that stuff. And DEAD CAN DANCE, and MASSIVE ATTACK. I’m a huge PRODIGY fan.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Really?

Max Cavalera: I think PRODIGY is awesome. I think they’re the only band of their kind. I have huge respect for whatever they do, it’s, I think it’s so well done.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: What is it about them that appeal to you? It’s electronica.

Max Cavalera: Yeah, it’s electronic, but I think it’s got the same attitude, intensity, the metal, or whatever, of SOULFLY. You know, stuff that I listen to. I like it a lot. I think it’s called “Voodoo People,” they had a song called “Voodoo People.” And they had a song called, uh, it’s before Fat of the Land, it’s called “Poison.” (Both from Music for the Jilted Generation.) This song is awesome. It’s like a heavy jam with percussion. It’s like what you hear with SOULFLY but they made it even heavier.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Well you did the one disc, a bonus disc with the first SOULFLY album, where it’s your stuff remixed.

Max Cavalera: Yeah, we do stuff with THE ROOTSMAN.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Right. Is that something that maybe for the next album, you could see more electronica?

Max Cavalera: I’d like to work with somebody like that, you know, but there’s just a few people that, you know, like when I hear electronic stuff on MTV, I don’t like it. I think it’s boring and repetitious. But there’s something like PRODIGY and THE ROOTSMAN that’s pretty cool, pretty unique. I can see me doing stuff. ROOTSMAN is a little bit unusual. He’s Muslim…very great guy.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: I’m not too familiar with him.

Max Cavalera: Yeah, he’s from England. He’s Muslim and a lot of his records have a lot of Muslim references, you know, so I think it’s not the right time for that kind of shit. Although I think Middle Eastern music is really cool, it’s really exciting. But yeah, I’d love to do something with THE PRODIGY, man, because I really think some of their stuff has full-on attitude. Some really great shit.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: You’ve heard their most recent album (Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned)?

Max Cavalera: Yeah, yeah, I kinda like that almost as much because I think, I don’t know, it seems like the record has less pop songs. You know, it’s more weird even. I don’t know, I think it’s less commercial, you know, than the other stuff.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: It’s a little more risky.

Max Cavalera: Yeah. I like the first song a lot (“Spitfire”).

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Did you ever hear SKINNY PUPPY?

Max Cavalera: Yeah.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: That’s like industrial, but you can see some of their roots in PRODIGY.

Max Cavalera: Yeah, SKINNY PUPPY. I remember those guys. MINISTRY kinda stuff, right, from the same area.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Your latest record, Prophesy, there’s obviously some very spiritual lyrics on that CD. How much has religion played a part in your life?

Max Cavalera: Well I don’t know. I think what I’m doing with SOULFLY, even with SEPULTURA, because I discovered spirituality throughout with SEPULTURA, but I don’t like, I’m not a big fan of religious stuff, preaching religion, things like that. And I think it’s a big misconception because people, a lot of people look at me and what I’m doing. I dedicated the record to God, as being a religious record, Christian even, when I don’t think, I think it’s spiritual, anybody can have it. People from all over the world, people from all different cultures, spirituality, like the guy that believes in Buddha, and maybe the other guy believes in Jesus but they share the same common belief to God, which is the higher force. So I kind of look at myself more of a spiritual, if there’s such a thing. It’s not a religion, you know, I guess there’s not a religion called “Spiritual.” You find spiritual people. But yeah, I think the little bit that has entered my life and I felt was rightfully to put on the songs. I felt strong enough to put it on the songs. But I don’t like when people confuse me with actually being religious.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: You’re not a Christian?

Max Cavalera: I’m not like, I’m not like (Christian rock band) P.O.D. I’m very different than that.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: How would you define yourself? I mean, I hate to label musicians, especially a group like SOULFLY, but how would you label your music, if you had to categorize it?

Max Cavalera: Well, it’s like, I wish I could find a name. I could name it myself. People call, they call it all kinds of things, metal this, metal that, you know, like you said, “BOB MARLEY of metal,” this and that, I don’t really have a name. I think it’s a big collage of different things plastered together into one. I don’t know. It’s different people have different views. Some people that have seen this tour have mentioned that they thought SOULFLY was like a new millennium BAD BRAINS, you know, because it was intense like BAD BRAINS, and then we’d have the reggae with music in between songs. We go from something super hardcore or metal to something like a flamenco reggae jam. I think there’s not a lot of bands that can do that and get away with it, to the point that the most death metal fan stands there and just kinda enjoys that shit and doesn’t get mad.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Say you’re just jamming on your own, trying out stuff for a new album, is there a point where you say to yourself, “That might be pushing it too far. I don’t know how the fans are going to react to that.” Do you ever feel yourself backing up or do you not care what the fans think?

Max Cavalera: No, no, I care about the fans a lot, and I think I’m a fan myself, that’s why. Yeah, there have been times where I’ve backed up. Even in the live show, the one time we tried, we incorporated, I think the idea was great, we incorporated all the four instrumentals, “Soulfly I, II, III, and IV”, we played live, maybe like two minutes of each, but it ended up being an eight minute jam, which I thought was great, and all the people that work for us (said) “Wow, this is great! This is a great part of the show!” But when we played it live, it sucked. You know, it’s like, it didn’t click in. A lot of the fans were not, after three minutes, they were not interested, no matter how interesting it was.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: But you had to try it once.

Max Cavalera: At least we tried and now I know it doesn’t work. But then again, like, we have the flamenco part with “Mars”, Marc (guitarist Marc Rizzo), when we do that, the whole band does that.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Live?

Max Cavalera: Yeah. And it’s totally different and it’s really captivating, so it’s just a matter of trying. And if I see it’s not clicking with my fans, I don’t normally use it but,I don’t know, there was a point when it was cool to do that. FAITH NO MORE were probably the pioneers of insulting their own fans, and I thought for a while, Yeah, that’s kinda cool, you know. (both laugh) Sometimes it’s still, if I feel the crowd’s not down, we’ll go and insult them, but at some point it gets a little bit old and you just do it for attention.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: You mentioned “Mars”, and there’s another song called “Execution Style.” Has the war in Iraq and the general conflict in the world affected you as an artist or songwriter?

Max Cavalera: Yeah, I think a little bit, but a song like “Execution Style”, it’s actually based on Brazilian death squads and things that go on. I don’t know if you’ve seen (the movie) CITY OF GOD?

JoshuaJabcuga.com: I’ve actually got a copy of it but haven’t watched it yet.

Max Cavalera: Yeah, you should watch it. After I watched CITY OF GOD and my own experience from living there, and I know about death squads and executions, so I wrote a song about it. It was like (side project) NAILBOMB. I’m not pro IRA or anything like that but I think the music is as lethal as that. So I thought “Execution Style”, the song is as lethal as a death squad, taking care of business, but of course I don’t support that, that’s pretty hard core. They kill little kids and shit like that. But yeah, I think the war, “Mars”, maybe it was a little bit influenced by the war, but I try not to do too much so it doesn’t outdate the record. You know like, you listen to the record in a couple of years and you’re like, “Man, maybe there’s not even a war anymore.”

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Let’s hope, right?

Max Cavalera: Yeah, I think eventually it’ll get like that. Like you think about the war with Japan and now we’re friends. We sit down with them and drink sake and get drunk together. And that was completely insane, World War II. Nobody could believe that we would sit down with the Japanese and share a lot of the same things. So I try not to do too much of that so it’s not, the album doesn’t…

JoshuaJabcuga.com: You don’t date it.

Max Cavalera: Yeah, ‘cause I don’t like that. I like the albums to be, as much as they can, without time, uh, you know, so you listen to it now or ten years and it still has a sense of, it doesn’t belong to any time, you know?

JoshuaJabcuga.com: I’m bringing my niece and my nephew, who are young teenagers, to the show tonight. It’s going to be their first real show.

Max Cavalera: You’re a bad influence on them, I’ll tell you right now. (both laugh)

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Well, I want them to see real music. Not American Idol or whatever they’re spoon-fed on MTV, you know. But I find it amusing because, like Ozzy, he had that show on MTV.

Max Cavalera: Uh-huh.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: And a lot of kids love Ozzy because of the show. They see the show and they say, “I like this guy,” never even realizing that the man was in one of the most amazing bands, BLACK SABBATH, you know, who had such a profound effect on so many artists. SOULFLY, you’ve got four albums out now, do you have any fans that, you know, say a generation of SOULFLY fans that have never heard of (previous band) SEPULTURA?

Max Cavalera: Yeah. I think it’s so mixed up. It’s kind of difficult to separate sometimes. What’s more interesting is the time I met a kid and I met his dad. The dad will be a SEPULTURA fan and you know, I’m thirty-five, so he’ll be about the same age. And the kid is a SOULFLY fan. And I’ll tell the kid, “Go listen to some SEPULTURA.” And I’ll tell the dad, “Go listen to some SOULFLY.” (both laugh) So it’s kinda cool, you know, because the dad will be more into SEPULTURA and I don’t blame him because he grew up with that, but he should give SOULFLY a shot. And the other way around. For the kid that just thinks SOULFLY is, you know, that just SOULFLY is good, he’s gotta go listen to old SEPULTURA, because I was a part of that, because without that there’s no SOULFLY.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: So looking back you’re proud of that work?

Max Cavalera: Hell yeah. We did a lot of stuff. Without SEPULTURA or NAILBOMB I wouldn’t be able to do what I do today because it was experience, year after year of trying new things.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: I heard that the lead guitarist of KORN quit the band.

Max Cavalera: Uh-huh.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Because of his newfound religious beliefs. You’ve said you’re thirty-five, from what I’ve seen you have a tight knit family, your wife Gloria is your manager.

Max Cavalera: Uh-huh.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: And you kind of keep everybody together.

Max Cavalera: Uh-huh.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: You come across as being very level-headed. How do you maintain this sort of down-to-Earth-ness and still maintain your ability to be a heavy metal performer?

Max Cavalera: Well, it’s a little schizophrenic and I know that. Some people that come on tour sometimes with us and they come back here and I’m sitting here listening to Reggae, you know, very chilled out and then I get up and go to the stage and it’s like (does trademark Max metal growl) and you know the hell breaks loose. And I come back here and it’s normal again. And people have told me, “Don’t you think that’s a little bit schizophrenic?” And I think, “Yeah, but you know, at least I’m doing it through music.” And it’s a lot of stuff coming out of me that wouldn’t come out, you know, music lets me do that. So I think my family and the people that travel with me keep me on my toes. ‘Cause my kids, they are nine, twelve, fifteen, for them I’m not really Max of SOULFLY, I’m just Max the, you know, the dad, whatever, so one minute you have a great review or you have somebody say, “Man, you saved my life through music,” which is great, I feel really good about that. At the same time, it’s like my kid saying, “I spilled Coke in the living room, I don’t want to pick it up.” (both laugh) So I go there and pick it up or whatever you know, so it’s cool. It fucking works for me, you know.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: I think so. Did you happen to catch the documentary on METALLICA?

Max Cavalera: No, no I haven’t. I’d like to. I’d like to watch it, but I haven’t yet.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Do you think that that’s a band that has maybe pushed their limits too far and the fans reacted negatively and do you think the band maybe lost touch with its roots?

Max Cavalera: I think METALLICA, I feel that they were really on this path, like, maybe to be the most ultimate, unbelievable metal rock band and for some reason they went the other way, you know. And I don’t know. I can’t answer why but I know the lyrics stopped making as much sense. I don’t know, maybe it’s money. Money can do a lot of things like that. Who knows what went on their path but it is not the same band. It’s kind of a bummer because I really liked them a lot and I thought they were, since, fucking BLACK SABBATH, there’s nothing like that, with that level of attitude and intelligence in lyrics. James Hetfield wrote the most amazing lyrics in metal ever. But it’s cool, as long as they’re happy with it.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Do you think they’re happy with it?

Max Cavalera: Uh, I don’t think so. I don’t think so. It’s just like, I think once you make things like that, albums like that, you have to continue to make those kinds of records or you get depressed, so it’s like once you did Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets you have to keep up, you know. So it’s one thing for me, I’m kind of glad that I’m in SOULFLY because SEPULTURA was starting to get, you know, people were like basing it on Roots, there had to be another Roots and using that which I probably would have taken the challenge. I wouldn’t have backed up from it. But I don’t know in METALLICA’s case. I think a lot of people wanted them to be more like what they used to be, because they were revolutionary. Once you stop being like that, you know like Satisfaction is the Death of Desire, that’s HATEBREED’s album’s name, it’s great. I think that’s kind of what happened to METALLICA. Maybe they fulfilled all their goals and where do you go from there? And on one end it sucks, but sometimes I put myself in their position, and it’s even maybe more sad to act like you’re still that thing, that kind of guy with the huge, fat bank account. That’s even more pathetic.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: They had a therapist, a counselor, that they would pay huge sums of money, thousands of dollars a month—

Max Cavalera: Wow.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Just to keep the band together. And I’m thinking to myself, You guys, it’s music. If you’re not enjoying it, then don’t do it.

Max Cavalera: Yeah.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Go get a job in construction.

Max Cavalera: Yeah.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Watching that movie, you’re just, you can never look at the band the same way again, or the music. You’re just like, That’s it. I disconnect.

Max Cavalera: Yeah, it’s weird, huh? And it’s sad. It erases a myth a little bit, what they were. They were a myth, you know. I don’t know, it’s hard. It is hard even like for me a lot. What I do, honestly, is just continue to follow the heart. ‘Cause your heart and your gut is all you get, all you have really in the end. And if you follow them in the beginning you should follow all the way to the end. That’s one thing I learned. And all the times I didn’t, that’s when I make mistakes. I looked back and “Ugh, I listened to the wrong people.”

JoshuaJabcuga.com: But it’s experience.

Max Cavalera: Yeah. You learn from regrets. So I learn more and more to follow my gut feeling, even if it’s like, yeah, you’re not gonna sell as many records or you’re not gonna be as popular as you know, some of the label people expect, you’re maybe going to be happier personally than the monetary, commercial success. ‘Cause you know, I’ve seen a lot of rich people and they’re not happy.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Money’s not everything.

Max Cavalera: Naw. You know, it’s good, but it doesn’t fix a problem, or like, you know, Bob Marley said, “Money can’t buy life.” And if you have a terminal disease, like he had cancer, and he had all the money in the world, and all of a sudden that money becomes nothing, it becomes paper. There’s nothing you can do with that money. It’s not gonna buy your life. I think about that shit all the time. Sometimes I think too much. (laughing) But I think I’m more happy doing what I’m doing now even though I know it’s not like METALLICA, we’re not doing stadiums, but inside I feel—

JoshuaJabcuga.com: By “now,” you mean, as SOULFLY?

Max Cavalera: Yeah. You know, even with SEPULTURA, we never really did anything like that. So it’s always been kinda cool if the struggle is there. The satisfaction is not, I don’t feel like I’ve done everything I had to so—

JoshuaJabcuga.com: There’s reason to get up there.

Max Cavalera: I still get up and get my guitar and go jam because I feel I want to do that. Nobody is forcing me to.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Would you stop if you ever felt bored?

Max Cavalera: Oh hell yeah. Yeah, ‘cause I can’t pretend. I’m the worst liar to start with. I always get caught. So it would be so visible. I think it would actually be painful in myself, having people look at that and just comment about like, “Oh my God, how miserable can this guy be?” Just see through it. And I do go through phases like that but in the end music is always stronger. I guess I look at things, compare things, music took me out of Brazil. It’s a miracle, you know, compared to all the people in Brazil.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Well that’s what Ozzy said about SABBATH. He said he would have been stuck in his little industrial hometown but he said heard THE BEATLES, and he wanted to be John Lennon and of course they ended up forming SABBATH and the rest is history.

Max Cavalera: You’ve gotta think, you know, you have to, when you look at a career in music, blah, blah, blah, for me it’s like a turning point. I always look back at where I was when I started playing music in Brazil and the odds are a thousand to one and we overcame it.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: But okay, you say the odds were a thousand to one, what was that one thing that said, “I gotta keep trying. I gotta make it”?

Max Cavalera: Well there’s a lot of things there but I think rejection from all the people in Brazil. You know, it was like, our beginnings are very different than what came after. We were the worst band. Nobody took us seriously and were really rejected by the metal community so we didn’t have a place. It was like this thing floating without a place. And I think I took all that rejection and frustration and channeled it into my lyrics, my music. And I still kind of do that today in a different way. You know, on “Prophesy”, I sing “This frustration is my inspiration.” You know, it had nothing to do with success. Frustration is a feeling that everybody gets: Rich, poor, black, white. You know, it’s a feeling, it’s a really hard feeling. Some people can’t deal with it. I find best for me to deal with it with music.

JoshuaJabcuga.com: Do you think it saved your life? Where might you be today if—

Max Cavalera: Well, a combination of all that but I think overall, you know like spirituality, and then sometimes I think about life being preordained, you know, it’s like it’s been already set up like a map and everything is already set up no matter what you do. It could be that. Who knows? But yeah, I do believe music in a huge way saved my life because half of my friends ended up, if not in jail or that, real miserable, which I think is even worse than death. You know so I use some of those words like “I’d rather die on my feet than keep living on my knees,” you know, and I see those guys and I think sometimes, Man, I would rather be dead than be like that. So I think about that kind of stuff a lot.

JoshuaJabcuga.com:
The artistic leap from HOUSE OF 1000 CORPSES to THE DEVIL’S REJECTS is pretty astounding. What really grabbed me was the command of pacing in certain scenes; there aren’t any cheap shock tactics, but there are some masterful and even subtle strokes hidden in all the chaos. The film really made me squirm at times, and that’s a compliment. You must have done some serious homework. What films, writers, and directors did you hunker down with since your first feature?

Rob Zombie, director of THE DEVIL’S REJECTS, HOUSE OF 1000 CORPSES, ROB ZOMBIE’S HALLOWEEN:
Well, there are obvious films that influenced REJECTS such as movies like BONNIE AND CLYDE, TWO LANE BLACKTOP, ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST and so on. But the main thing that made the difference for me was just slowing myself down. By this I mean that I am a very hyper person and I think that vibe shows in 1000 CORPSES. This time I really made an effort to calm down and really try and dig in on any given scene. So, it wasn’t any particular film but just a general state of mind. This was tricky on such a short shoot of 29 days but I somehow got it done.

JoshuaJabcuga.com:
The release date seemed to indicate that someone, either yourself or the studio, was trying to differentiate this film from the typical Hollywood horror movie (and rightfully so), as opposed to a gimmicky release during Halloween. Did anyone in particular push for the summer, and in retrospect, do you think the gamble worked against the film’s box office earnings?

Rob Zombie:
Well, releasing in the summer is a little nuts, considering every other film’s budget is fifteen times bigger. This was Lion’s Gate idea because they believed that they had something more special than a throwaway teen thriller. I liked the idea because it’s great to have some hard adult stuff among all the fluffy happy summer blockbusters. I was thrilled with the opening, considering we are the only film without a Taco Bell tie-in.

JoshuaJabcuga.com:
The movie has a built-in audience, and it’s nearly a lock that it’ll do gangbuster business once it’s released on DVD. Do you think the film was cannibalized by its core audience, who may be skipping the theatrical release knowing they’ll just buy the DVD in a few months?

Rob Zombie:
Hard to say. Maybe? Waiting for the DVD seems to be the new math. Although I think REJECTS needs to be seen on the big screen. I personally still enjoy everything more at the movies. But I do know plenty of people who now hate going to the movies. Either way it lives forever on DVD, so that’s cool by me.

JoshuaJabcuga.com:
Obviously THE DEVIL’S REJECTS has the gritty and even epic elements of films like THE WILD BUNCH, BADLANDS, and even ROLLING THUNDER. Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriquez are supposedly collaborating on a film called GRIND HOUSE, celebrating the exploitative elements of 70s cinema. THE DEVIL’S REJECTS, in my opinion, has done the best job of capturing the 70s vibe since JACKIE BROWN. In your opinion, what made the 70s the last great decade of film? Is that scene so unobtainable these days, or is it just a case of nostalgia talking?

Rob Zombie:
The 70s were great. I think the reason is people weren’t so greedy and still thought of movies as art. That last part may sound weird but I think there is more care put into any Russ Meyer movie than any cookie cutter Hollywood product. Every movie can’t make 100 million dollars. Why does everything have to be for everybody? It almost seems unreal that bad TV shows are now what we call movies. It’s sick. So-called grind house films like TRUCK TURNER or CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST seem like pure works of art compared to the current crop of forgettable crap.

JoshuaJabcuga.com:
After only two films, it’s already interesting to watch your career in film. You’ve made mention of working with Sponge Bob’s creator on a cartoon aimed at adults, which I can only imagine will be pretty surreal. Ultimately, are you aiming to follow the path of someone like a Tim Burton, someone who can balance the abnormal and obscene with the mainstream, and also jump around to different target demographics, maybe with something like SLEEPY HOLLOW one year, and then a few years later, CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY? Do you foresee the “Rob Zombie” brand of filmmaking, whatever the fuck that is, being held against you, not allowing you total artistic freedom in picking and choosing projects, at least at this point in your career? If so, do you have any strategies of overcoming this?

Rob Zombie:
Hard to say at this point. One thing that I would like to avoid is being boxed in by people’s ideas of what you can and cannot do. Juggling the mainstream with the cultish world has always been where I’m at. As far as having control or artistic freedom, well I wouldn’t ever get involved with any project that wouldn’t give me that. What’s the point?

JoshuaJabcuga.com:
Maybe it’s more a case of what is implied rather than actually shown, but still, I was surprised that THE DEVIL’S REJECTS was able to get the R rating, especially with the moral watchdogs chomping at the bit for the last few years. Did the original cut vary from the final version by much, and was there anything that you had to chop out that you really had your heart set on keeping?

Rob Zombie:
I feel I faired pretty well with the MPAA. The scene that was hit the hardest was Otis tormenting Gloria in the hotel room, but of course that will be restored on the DVD.

JoshuaJabcuga.com:
Up to now you’ve been working solely on original scripts. If you could adapt one or two novels to the big screen, which would they be?

Rob Zombie:
Well, even though it’s been done before I’d love to adapt I AM LEGEND.

JoshuaJabcuga.com:
THE DEVIL’S REJECTS is like an All Madden Team of character actors. Who were some of your all-time favorites from the golden years of Hollywood?

Rob Zombie:
Some of my favorites are John Wayne, James Cagney, Humphrey Bogart, Jimmy Stewart…I don’t know, there are so many great people.

JoshuaJabcuga.com:
I’m sure this has been asked of you before, but were you a Universal guy or a Hammer guy?

Rob Zombie:
Both, but more so Universal because that’s what I was exposed to first as a kid. Although anything with Lee or Cushing is great.

JoshuaJabcuga.com:
You’re a fan of Kubrick I’ve heard. If you could ask Stanley one question, what would it be?

Rob Zombie:
Yes, I am a huge fan but truthfully I have no idea what I would ask.

JoshuaJabcuga.com:
What’s the one thing you’ll do differently on your next film?

Rob Zombie:
I would try to dig deeper into the souls of the characters. This is where the heart of any film lies. Just trying to get more intensity out of my actors.